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Thursday 7 March 2013

Na Tasya Pratima Asti - what it means

Yajur Veda 32.3: Na Tasya Pratima Asti
As we all know, one shloka of from this important sukta 32.3 "Na Tasya Pratima Asti" is highly misqouted by anti Hindu and evil people like Jakir Naik.
Though everybody knows people like Jakir Naik are giving example of their evil deeds, they have no affinity with Vedas but only purpose is to fool Hindus and even muslims. Such lies has been exposed many a times.
This post provides the proper explanation. Please must read and share as much as possible.






Brahman,The transcendent ‘That’ :
( Shukla Yajur Ved, chapter 32 )

==========="Na Tasya Pratima Asti"===========


Sages of the Ved realized Brahman cannot be described by the epithets involving genders like he, she etc. Hence they used the epithet 'That'(Tat).

We know the mhavakya from Chhandogya Upanishad : " Tat Tvam Asi " ( "You Are That" i.e. you are verily the Brahman.)

The verse of Shukla Yajur Ved 32.1 states:

"Agni is That,……Brahman is That,..…Waters are That…."

Verses like these point to the high spiritual and philosophical attainments of the sages.

The third verse states: " न तस्य प्रतिमा अस्ति "
.....Shukla Yajur Ved 32.3

"There is no pattern of That" / " There is no parallel to That" /
" There is no comparison of That".

Recently a misguiding anti-Hindu propaganda is going on by promoting this verse which claims that the persons of vedic age were against the worship of the God using murti or icon. This claim is baseless. The image or murti is a symbol of the supreme power and symbolism is used in the Ved many times. In the famous Purush Suktam of [Rig Ved 10.90] or in chap. 31 the Supreme Purush is symbolized by a being of innumerable heads.


Shukla Yajur Ved 32 :

Agni is That, Aditya is That, Vayu is That, Chandramas is That, the bright One is That, Brahman is That, Waters are That, Prajapati is That. (32.1)

All winkings of the eye arose out of the radiant Purusha. None has comprehended him above, across or in the midst. (32.2)

There is none to compare with him/ There is no parallel to him, whose glory, verily, is great; whom we praise as 'Hiranyagarbha' ,'May he not destroy us','No one other than thee' etc. (32.3)

He is the deity who pervades all the regions, born at first, he is also within the womb. Verily, he who is born and is to be born,meets his offspring facing him on all sides. (32.4)

Before him there was nothing whatever born, who pervaded the entire world of created things; Lord of life, he rejoiced in his off-spring; Possessed of sixteen parts, he unites the three lights. (32.5)

He through whom the heaven is strong and the earth firm,who has steadied the light and the sky's vault,and measured out the sphere of clouds in the mid-air.Who is the Deity we shall worship with our offerings? (32.6)

To whom, supported by his help, two embattled armies look while trembling in their spirit, Where over them the risen Sun is shining. What God shall we adore with our oblation?When the mighty waters etc. He who in his might surveyed etc. (32.7)

Vena beholds That Being, hidden in mystery,in whom all find one single home; In That all this unites; from That all issues forth; He, omnipresent, is warp and woof in created things. (32.8)

Let the Gandharva who knows the Eternal, speak of that station which is parted yet wrapped in mystery.Three steps of That are in mystery hidden; he who knows them shall be the father's father. (32.9)

He is our Kin, our Father, our Creator,he knows all ordinances and all beings, in whom Devas, attaining life eternal, have arisen to the loftiest station. (32.10)

Having encompassed all creatures, encompassed all worlds, encompassed all the regions and directions,and approached the First-born of Eternal Order,he with the Self entered into the Self. (32.11)

And going swiftly round the heaven and earth,around the worlds, around the quarters, around the sky,and lengthening out the wide-spread thread of Order,he saw That, he became That, he was That. (32.12)

The wonderful Lord of the Assembly,dear to Indra, lovable, who bestows wisdom, has been approached by me. Hail! (32.13)

The talent that Devas and Fathers esteem,with that talent, Agni, endow me today. (32.14)

May Varuna give me talent,may Agni and Prajapati give it; May Indra and Vayu grant me talent, and Dhatr grant it to me. Hail! (32.15)

Let both the spiritual and the political man possess the lustre that I seek. May the Devas give me the noblest lustre. To thee, that lustre, Hail! (32.16)


Yajur Ved 25:10 :

हिरण्यगर्भः समवर्त्तताग्रे भूतस्य जातः पतिरेक ऽ आसीत |
स दाधार पृथिवीं द्यामुतेमां कस्मै देवाय हविषा विधेम ||

"That “Hiranya garbh” (Golden womb) who was present even before the creation of the world, who only is the master of this world, who beholds the earth and the space beyond, is alone worth to be praised."
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Mention Of Image Worship In Scriptures :

From Yoga Vashishtha :

"For those who have not known the essential nature of Deity, the worship of form and the like has been prescribed.To one who is incapable of (travelling) a distance of one Yojana (eight miles), a distance of one Krosa (two miles) is provided."

From The Bhagavad Gita, Ch.12, Verse 5 :

"Greater is their trouble whose minds are set on the unmanifested; for the goal, the unmanifested, is very hard for the embodied to reach".

In the Brihadaranyaka Upanishad, 4-14 :

The wife of sage Yajnyavalkya, and she herself a soul far advanced in the spiritual path, says to her husband:

"Constituted as we are, we need something concrete to fix our minds on and stir our imagination before we can think of subtler ideas".

From The Mahabharata
Santi Parva, section CCXVII
Translated by Sri Kisari Mohan Ganguli

Bhishma said: "Some worship Brahman in images. Some worship Him as existing in attributes. Some repeatedly realise the highest Divinity which has been described to be like a flash of lightning and which is again indestructible. Others who have burnt their sins by penances, attain to Brahman in the end. All those high-souled persons attain to the highest end."

35 comments:

  1. Vedas and Upanishads clearly state that mortals cannot envision the supreme being - Paramatma or Brahman. Which wise man decided that Paramatma has has a certain shape and certain skin color or speaks in a certain tongue? On whose authority do men decide that God resides in one material object such as a stone or metal but not in another? Parmatma is all pervasive, without beginning or end. It is man's ignorance that he thinks Paramtma looks like a human.

    You may want to worship stone idols molded by men because you cannot fathom the unfathomable and need a reference point for your bhakti. But the truly enlightened knows that Paramatma is omnipresent and he who realises this can see beyond the garbha of a temple and perceive Paramatma everywhere.

    No one can force idol worship on Sanatana dharmam and say "this is the only way" because idols are merely instruments in the hands of men and can never be sole representatives of Paramatma.

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    1. just like a mechanic requires tools to perform his/her job, a idol is initially required for the purpose of worship. no one can realise the supreme self without a point of reference. Idol worship gives us just that. though idol worship has been critisized by other religions, they themselves believe in symbolism and idol worship in different manners. for example, all muslims worship facing the kabba, they circle the kabba 7 times and still say they dont worship idols. christians worship mostly jesus and not actual "god", wear cross in their necks and go to churches. still they say this is not idol worship. this just proves that no matter what non-idolators say, they somehow worship material representation of the supreme self because all religions agree that the supreme self doesnt have a specific form.

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    2. @ Cyber_Sonic: For you information, Muslims do not worship Kaaba, Kaaba is Qibla (Direction) only towards which all the Muslims face during prayer just for showing the unity. All rich and poor face Kaaba for prayer. If there was no designated direction or Qibla then there would have been many problems like the Rich people would have asked the poor to face towards their palace, the leaders other powerful people would have asked to face towards their homes etc. Did you notice, the Muslims circle the Kaaba in anti clockwise direction, the way all the planets revolve round the sun. This is being done for more than 1450 years while this scientific fact that the plants move anticlockwise has been discovered very recently.

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    3. @Mohd Asif Zafar: what happens if you dont follow this direction? why dont you set an exampke by facing your back towards kabba the next day?

      and what about he people on earth who live in the opposite side of earth from kabba? do the face the ground to pray?

      if its only direction tell me the reason why you go for hajj?

      and take 7 circles (7 parikramas like we do in hindu temples) of kabba?

      do you know that the uncle of muhammad was a devout shiva worshipper?

      http://dharmanext.blogspot.in/2012/04/hymn-prophet-muhammads-uncle-wrote-in.html

      have you seen the golden shiva linga in the golden cage located near kabba?

      hindu worship the male form of shiva while the muslims worship the female form which is shakti. that is why in shiva temple there is a shiva linga and we do a clockwise parikrama of the temple 7 times. while the muslims worship the vagina which the circle 7 times anti clockwise. everybody knows muslims go to kabba to kiss the giant vagina.

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    4. Please dont try to equate islam with science for muhammad believed that he will fall off the cliff of land.

      http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Flat_Earth_and_the_Qur'an

      and do a morality check of muhammad as well

      http://themuslimissue.wordpress.com/2013/01/18/islam-the-crimes-of-prophet-mohammed/

      compare that to muslims all around the world and you will probably find that they are interested in following muhammad's footsteps. And whats more? 72 houris are waiting for them on the other side if they blow themselves up.

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    5. Apko ak rupye ki bhi knowledge nahi h

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    6. How many God's in the world only one God inthe world. The creature only who's this

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  2. Bhagwad geeta chapter 7: those who worship material things like fire, earth, sun etc enter unto darkness and those who fix their mind on me come to me.

    murti or idols are business tools for businesses.

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    1. when idols are worshipped the material is not worshipped, the object of worship is the entity which is represented by the material.

      When you make a call from your phone to your relative do you talk to a phone(an inanimate machine) or do you talk to your relative?

      Also when you are talking to a person you do not talk to his hands face, legs or stomach, When you remember the person you may remember him/her by his material representation but it is actually the identity behind the material you connect to.

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    2. Also, for example, The connection between you and me is this blog, but neither I am a blog or you, neither am I the hands which are tying nor yours, neither you are the body in which nor I. Our identity is our self which is beyond the material world but still our medium is a blog, in this case. Without this blog we would not have connected.

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    3. @cyber_sonic: If in order to imagine you (since I have never seen you)I put a Cockroach in front of me and seeing at this Cockroach I start talking to you on phone and tell you that I have kept a Cockroach to represent you, how will you feel? I am sure you will not like it. Then do you think the God will feel happy if you imagine him with such figures?

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    4. like the cells of our human body form us, we are also a part of god. it is our limited personality which causes disgust for cockroaches. but the all pervading god does not limit his vision in such a way. god can approach us in any form and in any way he wishes but it is our ability to realise him. suppose your allah one day comes to you in the form of cockroach and sat in the carpets of dargah. you simply chase that cockroach with your slippers and abuse it for dirtying the place. this is how your allah tests your compassion.

      the example with cockroach indeed suggests what kind of mentality you have grown up with. i suggest you visit the website www.thereligionofpeace.com to know more about your faith.

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    5. Allah never came to earth to prove himself and won"t come(always he sent prophits to teach way of living on earth to get heaven) ,we have to go to his feet for our judgement, if you are expecting to The God comes to earth to beg his creators to pray him or proov himself ,YOU will the biggest fool in the EARTH & HELL.

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    6. Allah has never come to earth to prove himself nor there exists any proof of allah. It is simply your blind faith in the words of muhammad. Do you want to biget a child just because you want to see him/her begging at your feet? In case it is so you have a psychological problem.

      God never will create humans to get his daily worships. It is a dream of a nymphomaniac who believes that he will go to jannat to copulate with 72 whores.

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    7. Hahaha...asif zafar...u r a true follows of zakir naik...u even copied word by word the stupid example of cockroach that zakir gave in one his talks...atleast be original in ur ideas when unr debating online...just look at the logic u gave...why on earth u wud imagine a person to be a cockroach if u r talking to him on phone
      ..atleast listen to urself when u give such absurd logic...

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  3. Kul hu Allah hu ahead
    Allah us samad
    Lam yalid walam yulad
    Walam yakul lahu kufuan ahead
    ......if any body or any thing fits in dis defination he is god
    May it be man water animal galaxy or xyz
    criticizing others religion... first u have to go to dept n study it
    So I invite you to read QURAAN with d meaning

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    1. I have read quran and the hadiths which only depicts the way of life of war mongering desert dwellers. I invite you to go to the website thereligionofpeace.com and read it with its true meaning.

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    2. – Muhammad’s marriage to 6yr old Aisha-(Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 58, Number 234 and 236).

      – Aisha cleans Muhammad’s semen stains-(Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 4, Number 229-233),

      – Muhammad fondling Aisha during her ‘Menses’- (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 6, Number 298-300, Sunan Abu Dawud, Book 1, Number 0270)

      – Muhammad liked to have intercourse with Aisha and his other wives when they were menstruating (Sahih Muslim, Book 003, Number 0577-0579),

      – He also loved to recite the Quran when his wives were in Menses while lying between their legs!-(Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 6, Number 296), (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 9, Book 93, Number 639)

      – Muhammad married his adopted Son’s wife called ‘Zaynab’ after lusting for her and then banned Adoption in Islam- (Surah 33:37,Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 6, Book 60, Number 305, Sahih Muslim, Book 008, Number 3330, Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 9, Book 93, Number 516,The History of Al-Tabari: The Victory of Islam, translated by Michael Fishbein, 1997], Volume VIII, pp. 2-3)

      – Muhammad having sex with his dead Aunt in the Grave-( “Kanz Al Umal” (The Treasure of the Workers, by Ali Ibn Husam Aldin, commonly known as Al-Mutaki Al-Hindi. He based his book on the hadiths and sayings listed in “Al-Jami Al-Saghir,” written by Jalal ul-Din Al-Suyuti.)

      – ‘I (Muhammad) put on her my shirt that she may wear the clothes of heaven, and I slept with her in her coffin (grave) that I may lessen the pressure of the grave. She was the best of Allah’s creatures to me after Abu Talib’… The prophet was referring to Fatima , the mother of Ali. “The Arabic word used here for slept is “Id’tajat,” and literally means “lay down” with her. It is often used to mean, “Lay down to have sex.”

      – Muhammad and the Quran sanctioned sex with your wives and ‘married’ slave girls-(Quran – 70:22-30, 23:5,6, 4:24, 33:50), — Muhammad speaks of sex with Slave Girls- (Sahih Bukhari – Volume 3, #432, Volume 9, #506, Volume 5, #637, Sahih Muslim, Volume 2, #3371)

      – Muhammad disagreed with ‘coitus interruptus’ with slave girls- he supported RAPE.

      – Muhammad forces a 17 yr old Jewish girl called Safiyyah to marry him and rapes her on the same day her husband and family are killed in the battle of Khaibar (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 59, Number 522, Volume 1, Book 8, Number 367).

      – Al Tabari reported in his (‘The History of al-Tabari: The Victory of Islam’, Translated by Michael Fishbein) that even some of Muhammad’s wives and companions were shocked that he forced Safiyyah to marry him after beheading her husband, brother and father.

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    3. Says who nadim tanwar...Quran ??? There is no proof that Mohammad recd these verses from God... He recd the verses from Gabriel in a cave where no one was there to corborate his story...how convinent...how did he know it was Gabriel...shaitan cud have equally masqueraded as Gabriel and said those verses...further, whenever mohammad's actions were questioned by his apostles, such as in the case of him marrying his adopted son's wife, he wud claim another verse from Gabriel and claim that allah has married him to his daughter in law...do u not see the absurdity of mohammad's doing here...having sex wid a woman with whom ur adopted son was having sex a few days ago is not a repulsive idea to u??? But why wud it be when ur religion allows thighing of pre pubescent girls...

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  4. Excellent reply cybersonic. If all Hindus and Muslims understand that Vedas were the first and only revelation of God, there will be no conflict. All other scriptures only hold their value if their teachings matches Vedas. Vedas from Swami Dayanand onwards were manipulated and hence are not true word of God. There is only one God and revelation. It's like a user manual if this creation. You get the user manual at the time of purchasing anything which tells u about dos and dont'ts and tells u how to use it. You don't get it after 2-3 years of its use. Same way when God created this universe he gave us the user manual - Vedas. After that we can write as many manuals as we want but if they don't match the original one, it's fake. It can be simplified to make it understand better but it cannot be altered of misinterpreted.

    Idol worship doesn't mean believing in various Gods. U pray to the that one Supreme controller by focussing on idol.

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  5. Cyber_sonic has listed a number of things in the comments section (25 December 2013 23:34). Before every point he has basically given his own interpretation and then instead of quoting the exact words of the Hadeeth he has listed its source, reference number etc. Also for the worst of his/her allegations (e.g. sleeping with a dead aunt or Fatima) he has given no confirmable reference at all, and placed these in the middle of the referenced ones. The person has used words which can only be called slanderous, for prophet Mohammad (peace be upon him). I checked each and every reference he has given and found that he/she has substituted words which are downright false. For example, the person writes ,"He also loved to recite the Quran when his wives were in Menses while lying between their legs!". While the actual hadeeth states that he leaned on their lap or put his head on their lap( http://sunnah.com/muslim/3 ). Which husband doesn’t do that even if the the wife is menstruating. Ofcourse there is the option of treating her like an untouchable during 'those' days and confining her to some remote corner of the house. I hope I need not point out where that practice is carried out.
    Another of the person's quotes, "Muhammad married his adopted Son’s wife called ‘Zaynab’ after lusting for her and then banned Adoption in Islam". Simply put, that is false. He was the one who had got the two married and even when they couldn't make the marriage work he kept on urging Zaid (his so called adopted son) not to divorce her. Please read the original text from the Quran for the context. When he did divorce her Prophet Mohammad married her so that once and for all it may be clear that calling somebody your son doesn't make him your son unless he is one by nature or marriage. And the ex wife of such a so called son can become your lawfully wedded wife. As far as banning adoption is concerned, what is not permitted in Islam is to call a man your son (as in giving him your name) when he is not. His status will be of a brother. It is just matter of not saying what is not true.
    Then he has conveniently used the word rape for prophet Mohammad’s marriage with Safiyyah and referenced it with a hadeeth number. Just one problem, the actual hadeeth does not even indicate anything of this nature (Original hadeeth: http://www.sahih-bukhari.com/Pages/Bukhari_5_59.php). Mohammad’s (peace be upon him) army was the victorious army. He did not need to marry a woman in order to have her. Have a good look at history to know what victorious armies do to the women of conquered countries. Safiyyah would according to the practice of the times become a slave. But she became an honoured wife. In Islam the prophet’s wives are called the ‘Ummul momineen’- mothers of the believers.

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    1. Regarding saffiyah only a non- Muslim can give this explanation that Mohammad married her out of charity. I would like to ask the Muslim gentleman who proclaimed mohammad's charity in marrying saafiyah, prey tell me if u and ur family is beheaded by a marauding army without any provocation whatsoever will ur wife willingly consummate marriage with the general of this marauding army... I can't possibly imagine a man who is responsible for killing of a woman's entire clan not having the decency of sparing the womanfolk... Can u imagine what it wud have been like for saffiyah to sleep with the murderer of her clan including her husband...but no as a Muslim u won't imagine the repulsion involved in the whole idea but wud support the notion that it was good for saffiyah to have become mohammad's wife instead of a slave... The fact is that Mohammad and no interest in showing charity here...he originally gave saffiyah as a war bootu to diyah...only after learning of beauty of saafiyah did Mohammad changed his mind and forced a marriage on saffiyah...an army general who plundered, killed and distributed womenfolk as slaves among his apostles...aka Mohammad...can be considered a prophet of god by deluded Muslims only...grow up Muslim apologists...

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  6. Cyber_sonic also quotes as reference a book “The History of al-Tabari: the victory of Islam” translated by Michael Fishbein. I am quoting here a blurb of the book from amazon.com (link: http://www.amazon.com/History-al-Tabari-Vol-Victory-Islam/dp/0791431509 )

    “Shortly afterward the Treaty of al-Hudaybiyah broke down, and Muhammad marched on Mecca. The Meccans capitulated, and Muhammad entered the city on his own terms. He treated the city leniently, and most of the Meccan oligarchy swore allegiance to him as Muslims.
    Two events in the personal life of Muhammad during this period caused controversy in the community. Muhammad fell in love with and married Zaynab bt. Jahsh, the divorced wife of his adopted son Zayd. Because of Muhammad's scruples, the marriage took place only after a Qur'anic revelation permitting believers to marry the divorced wives of their adopted sons. In the Affair of the Lie, accusations against Muhammad's young wife 'A'ishah were exploited by various factions in the community and in Muh'ammad's household. In the end, a Qur'anic revelation proclaimed 'A'ishah's innocence and the culpability of the rumormongers.”
    The Quran does not mention Muhammad (peace be upon him) ‘falling in love’ with Zaynab (r.a.). This is the book’s own version.
    One more word . When you come to need falsehood to support your beliefs, it is a good time to look at what your beliefs are.

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    1. I told the truth nothing but the truth ..
      That is why it hard this Idiot pundit.
      He is creative lair and a sound business man

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    1. He is a business man. Are you crazy He is gonna destroy his business?
      100% profitable business. Just say few words to scare people.

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  9. If u have more knoledge then ask for zakir nayak for a open challeng live....

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  10. Creative lair ...
    That is how they are still 1st class citizen and other are there slave.

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  11. "natasya prathima asthi" there is image of god, there no painting of god, there is no idol fo god, there is nothing like him. and why do hindus goes against this shloka? Why hindu purohith will misguide hindus? Why you people are do not think about it?

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  12. " न तस्य प्रतिमा अस्ति "...simple meaning is "Uski(ishwar ki) pratima arthart moorti athwa shakal surat nahi hai" ....aap apne man se naye bhawarth gadh lijiye to aur baat hai.

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  13. Bhai ap Dr.zakir naik ko galat q bata rahe ho apko unke peeche burai ni karni chahiye agar ap sachche ho to ya to is baat ko sabit karo ya fir Dr.zakir naik ke saamne jakar unse sawal karo

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  14. We Muslim only believe in Quran and Sahi Hadeeth.....not on satanic verses which created by some miscreants ....requesting all to read your own sacred book with meaning and stay happy don't try to malign others religion.

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  15. If you r really right about the sentence "natasya partima asti" and zakir Naik is wrong so did you case to SUPREMCORTE ya kis bhi Coarte case kiya unke khilaaf
    Aor Karoge bhi kyu bcoz court also know that Zakir Naik is right person.....
    Aor tum Jo baat ko ghuma Kar rakh rahe ho...
    By the way....

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